ADVICE COLUMN 2

This is ultimately a 'game' of self-trust.

Journal 4 onward will be 'mainly' aimed at answering your specific questions, as Journals 1-3 have now covered the areas that, I feel, are necessary in your recovery. A big 'thankyou' to those who are happy for these questions to be answered in my journals. Here are some of the questions asked - this is now just a small sample of what is a growing list! You will also see 'flighter' issues resolved more predominantly in the latter journals. 

Will, My name is NW. I have had anxiety proper for about seven months, 
it started off not trusting my thoughts, then I got to the point where I was 
questioning everything. By the way your site is great, it has helped me 
though and I am now much better. I can now turn the worrying off at will, 
(excuse the pun). Your method works!  I have isolated the process. :-) 
The question I want to ask  is: I can always feel the need to go into the 
secondary process, but I CAN stop the secondary process, but sometimes 
I slip up, slightly then afterwards the temptation is much greater to go 
back and explain, I sometimes feel that I am going, back. Did you have 
these incidences in your recovery, what did you do about them and how 
long did it take you until the temptation went away? 
Is it just a case now of putting up with that temptation until it goes? 
For instance last week was really good, sat on top of the temptation all 
week and as the week progressed it got easier, started to think to my 
self this is now sorted. Waking up in the morning with 
a clear head. Great. Then one thought popped into my mind, ( I think 
it was out of my control,( primary), not sure though, then the 
temptation that night was much greater, went to bed, the next morning 
the temptation was big, back four steps. Did you have these spells in 
your recovery? What shall I do. :-    
 
Will ,
Thanks for that e mail you sent me has cleared up a few things, but 
there is one thing I forgot to ask you. Is it ok to think about the 
anxiety? I think about the anxiety most of the time, thoughts run 
through my head consciously, but NOT to the point where I panic, 
is that ok? Is it fair to say that is ok providing I don't panic? 
Sometimes after I have been thinking about it for a bit, I get the 
urge to stop thinking about it, then I feel the temptation to explain 
or panic. Before I tried to blank it all out but got anxious when I 
could not. Which I think is again the cause of the problem. Nice 
one Will. Sorry to be a pain in the *rse. I thank you again..
 
Will, I have nearly sorted this. Once I know I am totally correct 
and I am doing everything correct I am away. I still feel like a 
pain though. Will have to give you a donation for helping me, so 
that you can continue to help others. More people like you the 
world could do with. Someone who is willing to help others on 
his/her own accord. Anyway, Will , all week I feeling good had a 
negative thought, I thought I was fighting/ (self doubt in the 
process) when I was not, afterwards the temptation was big to 
enter the fighting process. I did not fight and after about ten 
main I was ok again. Have I done something wrong to get to 
that stage. i.e. to obtain total recovery I should not get 
panicky, is panic too far _*or is that ok providing I don't 
fight after*_. I think I am correct but confirmation of this fact 
will confirm once and for all that I am getting better. I thank 
you again will, If you want to put any of out correspondance 
on your journals, please feel free. Many thanks NW
 
Dear Will,
      Thanks for your journals which I am trying to implement, 
with still some difficulty as I believe that I am unable to let go
and not practised enough in it as yet.My main problems have 
been depression for many years and latterly for 5 years bad 
anxiety which occurred in a panic attack whilst driving on the 
motorway shortly after my mother's death.
For some bizarre reason since that time I have become overly 
preoccupied with my own self and fear of impending doom/death 
and I cannot seem to rid myself of it from morning when I wake 
the thoughts/feelings are with me constantly whether indoors or 
out. I don't know whether anyone else has experienced these 
stupid thoughts or sensations, but it is very difficult to concentrate 
on other things when these thoughts are constantly in the back of 
ones mind creating fear all the time. Many thanks Mel 
 
Hello,I am a sufferer of panic attacks and I am a natural worrier.  
My main problem is that I suffer with stress rashes on my neck 
and chest.  Until recently they would only appear when I was in a 
stressful situation, but now I can simply be talking to a friend and 
suddenly I start to get this warm feeling around my chest/neck.  I 
then think about the rashes appearing and the next thing I know 
they appear.  The more I think about them the more they come.  
I found the information about secondary thoughts very interesting 
and I want to go on to read the related journals. The only thing that 
has helped my anxiety/rashes is a beta blocker called Propanol.  I 
haven't taken these tablets for about 6 months.  I do Yoga twice a 
week and I try to lead a healthy life, so obviously 'popping pills’ is 
not something I really want to be doing. Without going into too much 
detail I have experienced a lot of problems thatI am sure have 
caused me to be a worrier and an anxious person.  I really want to 
over come this as I feel like my mind is taking over me sometimes. 
Any advice you could give me would be greatly appreciated.  It is 
good to read your story as it gives me hope that I can overcome my 
problem. Many thanks, Amy R 
 
Hi Will,
I have just come across your site and and started reading some of it  
although this was difficult in the first instance to read the actual words 
about panic, anxiety etc some of the sentences made real sense to me. 
I'm 22 year old male and have suffered from panic attacks initially then 
extreme anxiety for about 4 years. I am getting more and more problems 
because of the way I deal with anxiety i.e. avoidance and association. 
This is very debilitating. The past year has been parrticularly difficult 
and I am in need of some support from a fellow sufferer.  I have 
purchased your journals and look forward to reading them. Would you 
mind if I sent you an email about what problems I am having so that you 
may be able to give me some advice.  Any help would be most 
appreciated.  Hope to hear from you soon. Laurence  
 
Hi Will, Thanks for getting back to me so quickly, I suppose I better 
start from the start and give you a bit of background info first before I 
get to the problem. Basically I started having panic attacks roughly 
about 4 years ago. These started as mild but progressed to be not very 
nice. The reason I was getting the panic attacks was that i was living in 
a 2 bed houses with three people and didn't have anywhere to call my 
own. I'm someone who needs space anyway and the lack of it caused 
me to think that it was me who was making me feel bad. I came to 
realise that the best way to deal with the panic attacks was to let them 
pass by not giving them any attention. This seemed to work well until I 
started getting anxiety problems. My response to these were to run 
away (flighting) from any problems that arose instead of standing up 
and dealing with them.  I began to associate places, things and people 
with feeling anxious and therefore avoided any of these.  This all got 
on top of me and led to me having a breakdown which was a nightmare. 
In so many ways i feel so much better in that I have got a part time job 
again and overall am feeling lots better.  However recently I have had 
more problems and am in need of some advice. The root of my problem 
came from the way I dealt with the anxiety. I would really try and avoid 
anything that gave me any form of anxiety. I have come to realise that 
a certain amount of anxiety is healthy and that by facing up to the 
anxiety is the proper way to deal with it. The problems now are that 
because I dealt with things in the wrong way in the past I feel I have 
become unbalanced in my thought processes e.g. my initial reaction to 
something is nearly always negative.  Thanks to your journal I am 
coming to understand that by trying to stop having the negative 
reaction in the first place  is actually causing me more problems, and 
that by not fighting the negative thought natural control takes over 
and a positive one takes over.  This is great.  
However, my problems are deeper than that.  Basically, I am very 
aware of the way I function. Just because I am aware of this function 
though doesn't lead to problems.  The problems come because my 
brain tries to interfere with these processes i.e. I'm aware of the way 
I remember something my brain tries to interfere with that process.  
The problems don't stop there the next thing that happens is that I 
then create an association (a negative one) - I don't want to create 
an association it just seems to happen. This becomes even more 
unhelpful because everytime I see that object, thing, place I then get 
the interference again.  Lastly, the association isn't just with the 
object itself but with its energy.  This is creating even more problems. 
I know this sounds a lot but my thinking is that most of this stemmed 
from my previous reaction to the anxiety, which has led to bad thinking 
habits developing.It seems to be my initial reaction to things 
(almost always negative) is what causes the problems and for some 
reason I keep creating more which means I can't carry on with a 
normal life. It would seem that if my initial reaction was
a positive one I would be able to lead a normal life.  I have been 
unable to go to work this week.  Please can you give me some advice 
on some possible reasons why I keep creating this interference with 
processes in the first place and then why I keep creating associations 
after that.  I would be grateful for any advice that you could give me. 
If the last paragraph doesn't make sense I can explain in more detail 
if needed! Thank you very much. Hope to hear from you soon. 
Laurence  
 
Will, How did 'you' stop worrying? I understand all that you're saying,
but cannot stop the urge to panic all the time. Many thanks  
D.Talbot  
 
Dear Will - this is truly a fantastic site that has given us a real
insight into the workings of the 'anxious mind'. My son has developed
a really bad stammer and no matter what we do - he seems to get worse.
Can you shed any light on this as we, like any parents, just want to 
help him, as we can see the frustration 'mounting up' inside him. 
We've tried all avenues so far. In hope!  Many thanks C&M Asp.
 
Will, this is a great help and the simplification that I needed. Can you give 
me any other info/examples as to 'how' we know when we are in 'primary or
secondary' thought?  Many thanks   DM   
 
Hi Will, Having read your site, can you tell me if your journals cover the 
'range' of thoughts we can have? This makes so much sense to me - 
I have copied your M.O.R.D to keep with me. The reason 
I ask this is I understand you can have a negative thought and then 'cut-off' 
from it, but can you have a mixture of 1. and 2. for example? I find that I
often have a negative thought followed by a positive 'correction' - but 
'don't' believe enough in myself to follow this through - and think that 
you're saying we cut-off from these positive thoughts also? Many thanks
Neil Al.  (Yes this is covered in 'Journal 3' - full answer to 
this question is also in Journal 4).
 
Will, Journal 3 really 'struck a chord' with me - especially your article 
for the 'Anxiety Conference' - I often find I have 'perverse' thoughts
- do these ever go away as I find this really difficult to deal with? 
Anon  
 
                             
The following is the start of a long discussion with a young lady, who 
is obviously 'in the depths' of what I would call 'cumulative anxiety'.
It's interesting to see how she eventually starts to 'get to grips'
with understanding this illness and the fact that she's not mad!
 
Hi Will, my name is Anna and I recently joined your site however 
i would rather you reply to this one as the other address is shared 
with my partner.
I just wondered if you may be able to offer some advise really, will 
try and keep it as short as possible! I have suffered with anxiety 
( or as you very well described it mental knots!) for over 12 years 
now and probably longer i can't remember. However when it first 
started to take over my life i started havig irrational fears about 
anyone spiking my drink, then that i was a paedophille, then my 
parents would kill me etc etc.. in my heart of hearts i knew it wasn;t
true but i felt like once i had thought it and it stuck in head i couldn't 
escape the mental toture of it.anyway so for a few years in my late 
teens i began seeing a psychologist. She was lovely, but ctually was 
quite bad advice she gave me now i think. she taught me that 
whenever i had a thought that i didn't like/ was anxious to say "stop" 
or " go away". I was doing this for years till last year i started 
seeing a CBT therapist. she has been really helpfull in some ways, 
has been trying to teach me to accept how i feel etc, however does 
keep telling me i will probably always be anxious which depresses 
me really. 
anyway recently she has been trying to teach me a mindfullness 
tecnhique, so that whenever i have an anxious/scary/horrible thought 
then i am to stay with it and jsut say to myself "oh theres an anxious 
thought again" and almost take a curious stance when it comes in 
my head, but not to get involved in trying to explain it. however in 
theroy sounds great buit can't really get it to work for me.
when i came across your site it was so comforting to hear you write 
about so many thinks i have in common. many sites on anxiety go 
on about physical side effects, although these aren't nice it is the 
mental side that is runing my life. In especially struck a chord with 
me when you talk about confusion/ need to explain how i am feeling 
as that is me all over and i believe the core of my problem. anyway 
so as i have said i have had these fears over time, and also a 
general feeling of unease, constant worry/ anxiety about anything 
and everything. a few months ago i was so scared i was going to 
come psychotic that it took over my life. however it 
changeda  while ago. about two months ago i began feeling
really down and more confused i guess really. i kept thinking all 
the time, what is wrong with me, how can i explain this to anyone. 
it then began to really  scare me that i couldn't explain how i am 
feeling and keep thinking who am I etc?
 Its like i am just trapped in introspection constantly and 
can't get out my body, if i do for maybe ten minutes then i am 
straight back inside thinking how do i feel, what are my emotions,
 what is wrong? it is driving me insance. I am also trapped with 
constant doubting thoughts, such as am i jsut self obsessed? do 
i have a personality disorder? am i a really horrible mean person?
wheneber i think these thoughts i always seem to get memories 
that come back from my past that probably are complety innocent 
but seem to act as evidence at the time.
Take yesterday... i woke up just feeling anxious and because i 
didn't know what about i kept trying to find a label for my anxiety 
such as "i can't explain " or who am i even though i don't know 
if that was what i was anxious about. then I began to get scared 
oh how i should be thinking, like my cbt says i should do this, 
and im trying to understand from your website how you advice 
to stop the
mental torture. Then i keep thining, how can i explain how im 
thinking? if i try and write it down to explain it and go back tp 
what the first thoughts were then i feel a bit better, but then it 
only lasts a short time. its as if my fear now is just the term 
" i can't explain it" and then i feel lke im going to go mad/
noone can help me.
i am also always tied in mental knots about every day things. 
like i will come in from work and think right i need to do this 
this and this, then i think god why am i getting so stressed about 
this and then feel really angry and irritable. or another example,
someone will be talking to me that i don't want to speak to but i 
feel like i should, its as if there is two voices arguing in
my head and i feel my head will explode!
i am sorry this is so long, hope you haven't fallen asleep by now.
just i have read your website, and it does seem the msot logical 
and best way yet i have seen out of this misery. however i just 
cna't get my head around it. by know means is it an insult to you,
 i think i am " trying too hard" . so for example, if i wake up 
thinking "i don't know whats wrong with me" or " i can't 
explain it" or "i can't stop thinking" how should i deal with this.? 
also what kind of fears did you have, was it just anything and 
everything? 
i just feel so full of doubt, like i am writing this and thinking, is 
this what i really mean? am i explaining myself properly, it does 
just feel like a downward sprial constantly that i can't get out of. 
one more question... did you used to suffer feeling of 
depersonaisation? I haven't had it for years yet it has been really 
bad last few days, prob cos stress levels are so high, i just feel 
like when i am talking i am acting a part, like someone else 
speaking and someone has taken me away. if you did suffer 
with this how did you handle it in regards to primary, secondary
thinking?
will thank you so much for taking the time to read this, sorry i 
do babble just i realy think your method could get me out of this 
hole?
many thanks, Anna
ps- please if possible could you reply to this web address
 
 
Hi Will

Thanks for your journals. I have started reading them. I may record my 
progress for my own benefit and if you wanted to, to add to the journal?

I already have one question - your writing is great by the way (that was a 
compliment, not the question): although I am very alike you (not many men 
admit they panic) your writing appears to centre on more compulsive thinking 
which obviously increases the chance of having a panic attack. However, in 
addition to over thinking practically everything in my life and beating 
myself up over anything and everything, I also suffer from panic attacks. So 
far you have made no reference to these symptons, for me I sweat, feel sick 
and can often be sick, shallow breathing etc. I know you will know what they 
are but when you refer to "panic" are you referring to something else?

Best wishes

Rob 
 
Hi Will, Many thanks for sending me your journals, I'm just about to start 
on Journal 3 I've had these things going on for about 3 years now, and they 
sound very similar to what you described. Last weekend I had a particulary 
bad time, and have been at my sisters for since Tuesday to try and get some 
rest, and some help. I have been for acupuncture twice which I found 
amazingly relaxing and also stopped any anxious thoughts. I also went for 
a couple of sessions with a Human Givens therapist which was very good. 
The problem seems to be maintaining belief in myself, and not getting 
stuck in the loop of thoughts which make me think there is something else 
wrong, and also that I just can't cope, which obviously makes matters worse. 
I can see your point, and I'm certain that if I could just let these thoughts go, 
I would be absolutely fine. In fact I have periods where I feel absolutely 
fine, and have a feeling that everything can be well again. These always 
seem to give way to negative spirals of thought, where I feel totally 
hopeless, and scared of the whole thing. I was wondering, did you have 
periods where it just felt all to overwhelming, and do you have any tips 
for getting through these periods. I leave my sisters tomorrow, to return 
to Jersey, and while part of me just wants to get back to normal 
( I have a great life, and there's nothing I'd want to change), the anxious 
part of me is saying that things are getting worse and I just can't cope? I 
also have trouble with a feeling of unreality from time to time, which is very 
disturbing, did you experience this? Many thanks Dave ps I don't mind if you 
use any of this on your site, but request that you only use my first name. 
Many thanks  Dave
 
 
 
 
*All responses are based on my own experiences and recovery from this 
  illness. The same applies to the many other questions anwered in my 
  journals.
 
 
 
 
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